We don’t just want “car-free cities” for the sake of it… We want walkable cities with infrastructure and proximity to needs/wants built with pedestrians in mind
Why would anyone hate that? To me it sounds like a utopia. I just had to buy new tires for my car @#$%*!
Boomers. I was blown away when I went to a city hall meeting about expanding the roads and hearing their hot takes.
After the wave of old boomers (most of the audience) complained about how dangerous the whole world has become that they can’t even take their trash out on the street, they say a walkable city just opens up “more danger”.
To them, walkable streets means seeing more diversity, which is apparently super scary.
It makes perfect sense when you understand modern city design as a form of mostly unconscious but purposeful violence, that pretty much defines the middle class Boomer generation in wealthy rich countries. Structural violence… as far as the eye can see!
US Boomers love that shit, the prison system, healthcare, highway design, the tax filing system the list just goes on and on.
I really wish my parents generation could have just been skipped and instead I had parents from the previous generation who actually fought for something and understood how to defend workers rights.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.“
Removing cars from urban areas means lower carbon emissions, less air pollution, and fewer road traffic accidents
Not to mention how much quieter it is.
Show me a car free neighborhood and I’ll show you insane real estate prices due to demand.
Then people will point to those prices as proof it’s a “failure” then spend 2-3x what they “save” on housing on auto loans/expenses.
I love living in a car free city. I can’t believe America doesn’t build more cities like mine.
What city?
san francisco
So do you still utilize Uber or driving services? If so you’re still dependent.
I’ve used taxis a handful of times over the past 10 years. Mostly for surgery related things.
Huh, weird that when I was there, there were literally thousands of cars. Probably just hallucinated it
The only city that I know of that fits that definition is Venice, Italy. I’ve been able to live car free in SF for 10 years.
That’s not really what car free means.
For years I’ve somehow missed this. Cars driving on nearly every street and somehow that “car-free”, yeah makes perfect sense.
I think it’s because the bar is so low, just the ability to choose to walk for everyday commuting, errands, and leisure qualifies as car free. Ie, you can choose to be car free if you want.
Oh. So you mean the places where you have to be rich to live at a nice place, while everyone else has to live in a tiny apartment in a huge building that’s been borderline uninhabitable since the 1970’s?
Yeah I don’t understand that at all. I thought car free meant a place, usually a part of town, where cars are not allowed. Those places exist. So to call places nothing like that “car free” seems pretty useless imo
I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not.
I wanna live in one 😭
Taking suggestions on cities lol!
I feel like this is people about most things. Most people aren’t very imaginative.
They’re kind of stupidly in favor of how things are, but once it changes they’re like this is great I don’t know why we didn’t do it before.
Like imagine if free public libraries didn’t exist and someone tried to create them. Conservatives would shit their pants hating it.
Not just conservatives.
Yah, Plenty of liberals shit them selves when you suggest giving an unalloyed good away for free.
Conservatives wouldn’t create libraries at all.
Liberals will create libraries by contracting it to private companies who mismanage and embezzle.
Might be a fun social experiment to propose a public gun lending armory. Like a library, you can walk in and check-out an AK-47 for a day or week for free. But just like the library charges for printed pages, you would have to pay for the ammo.
I think there should be libraries for all sorts of things. For example, everyone on my street has their own lawnmower, trimmer, etc. And very rarely do people mow their lawns at the exact same time. It would be a lot more efficient if there was a place to check out the lawnmower to mow your lawn and put it away for someone else to use.
They are on the rise.
I’m living a car-free lifestyle, despite holding a license to drive. It’s more freedom than I’ve ever had.
Been there at times. It’s great not having to pay and worry about a car (done that at times as well). Yet, if you need to move house or get somewhere difficult, you can lease or borrow a car or van. And you can be an extra driver on trips.
I dream of the day I can bike safely to my places. Right now I basically have the supermarket and two bars in distance, and then it’s a mess of double lane roads and highway ramps before I get to any bike friendly paths to go further afield. It really sucks.
I lived across the street from a department store, a grocery, some pizza places, a “smoke” shop, video game stores, and everything else I could want on a normal day. It was amazing. I walked everywhere except to work. I miss living there. The main downside was that it was in Florida.
St Augustine?
Nah, it was Orlando, but not the city proper, more like one of the smaller areas around the actual city. Trying not to give too much away, but it was near Altamonte Springs.
Sorry wasn’t trying to have you dox yourself, I actually do know Orlando pretty well so I think I know where you mean
lol, no prob.
I imagine bikes will be very useful in making US cities walkable. The streets have been built very wide to make space for cars, which would make walking more tedious, but bikes are the perfect solution to this bc they let you cover more (flat) distance with just the power of your legs.
A return to trolleys would also be lovely. A lot of American cities are already laid out with trolleycars in mind.
Oh, I didn’t know this
Yeah, cities in America from around 1870 to 1920 had extensive trolleycar networks. They were so widespread you could hop between them and even travel across state lines. Every major city had them and they were the primary mode of urban transportation. Now cities only have trolleycars as a novelty, like San Francisco still has theirs. New Orleans has beautiful streetcar lines. They’re mostly used for tourists, but if they were made more extensive and modernized then New Orleans could have very functional mass transit.
Most of the trolley networks were ripped up to make room for extra lanes or parking lots. It wouldn’t be easy, but it would be possible to repurpose existing roads for trams/trolleys. I really believe this.
Disneyland is a good comparison for some Americans: imagine having to drive to each ride and restaurant
To answer your question on why people are hesitant: they’re not worried about the cities per se, but about the mentality that will then turn its attention to the suburbs and rural areas. There are people who don’t want to live 10mins away from grocery stores because they don’t like grocery shops, or other crowdy places with people milling about. Some of us want to be hermits and live relatively secluded
All that said, I like car free cities. I don’t want denser suburbs tho
I don’t want suburbs at all and public policy should make suburbs unaffordable.
Why don’t you want suburbs? Or I guess, the question is why don’t you want other people to have them?
Suburbs, are inherently higher carbon emitting that proper urban areas. For an extreme example, if everyone in the US lived in an area with similar characteristics to NYC, it would reduce the counties carbon emissions by 3/4.
Beyond that, they’re only really able to exist, as they do in the US, thanks to exploitative and predatory economic practices. Almost no one who lives there makes their money there, they work somewhere else, extracting value, and then bringing it back to the suburb to fund incredibly inefficient infrastructure.
I’m not saying ban them complete, I’m just saying, take away the massive amount of economic incentives and support that makes them possible. Build out housing in cities and ensure the value generated in them goes to funding their services, infrastructure and development of the cities.
Make the suburbs pay for them selves and they will nearly disappear very quickly.
Beyond that, they’re only really able to exist, as they do in the US, thanks to exploitative and predatory economic practices. Almost no one who lives there makes their money there, they work somewhere else, extracting value, and then bringing it back to the suburb to fund incredibly inefficient infrastructure.
I don’t think this is true with remote work. Also, there are businesses nearby which operate on location—architectural firms, dance studios, lawyers, accountants etc. So I think painting suburbs as “predatory” or “absent of economic activity” is an inaccurate and incomplete description.
Regarding the carbon footprint: yes, that can be improved by more commuter rails to the suburbs, and improved energy efficiency in older houses. Encouraging people to grow native plants in green spaces will also help as opposed to “manicured lawn culture”.
I think you’re undervaluing how much people want to live outside of busy spaces, so there will always be some support for suburban living. From my pov, I am more in favor of the rustic, idyllic spaces as opposed to the overpaved, McMansion scenarios that maybe you’re describing?
If you are willing to pay $100/gallon of gasoline, pay for all the roads, pay for the carbon externalities of both the cars and the roads, and pay for the water infrastructure and basically live in a Galt’s Gulch, then sure, you can do whatever you want. But that isn’t the case today.
Is there a FAQ about living in car free cities? For example, how do you travel to another city? What do you do if the city has high slopes making walking and biking too hard? Or how do elders deal with what other citizens would take for granted in terms of mobility?
What do you do if the city has high slopes making walking and biking too hard?
E-bikes and regular bikes with good gearing. And walking up slopes generally isn’t too challenging it’s just slow. Infrastructure can help here too by making sure there are paths that don’t go up hills unnecessarily. Fast and frequent public transport provides another option where walking and biking is less viable.
For example, how do you travel to another city?
Trains and buses. Car as a last resort (preferably one that is hired rather than owned, and preferably electric rather than an ICE).
Or how do elders deal with what other citizens would take for granted in terms of mobility?
Elderly people can’t (or shouldn’t) drive either so better walkability = better for the elderly since it gives options to get around without relying on a car. Good infrastructure design can help with disability access, and many disabled people can’t drive anyway.
how do you travel to another city?
Train, bus, electrical bike, rideshares for the last mile maybe.
What do you do if the city has high slopes making walking and biking too hard?
Get off and walk, use a bike with electrical assistance, use a different type of mobility assistance if i am very physically impaired.
how do elders deal with what other citizens would take for granted in terms of mobility?
See above + Elders are typically more physically able due to having lived a life of regular everyday exery + their everyday destinations are not several miles away + “car free” doesn’t paradoxically mean free of cars, just almost all cars - ambulances are still needed for example - as such if a person is so impaired that no mobility assistance is enough to get them to their destination, then they can still be taxied by help.
What do you do if the city has high slopes making walking and biking too hard?
You shift to a lower gear and go up the hill
It’s cool and all, but trains have fixed routes that can’t take you almost everywhere. Of course I’d prefer trains over highways, just stating the current fact. Take for example every city I’ve lived in Mexico: trains never were an option to travel between cities. That’s changing, fortunately.
PEVs are still not very common around here, but that answers some questions. Thanks for your reply.
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Also “car free” doesn’t have to mean literally zero cars allowed, but just build and layout the city so you never have to use one for daily errands.
I live next to a grocery store and it’s literally the best thing ever, grocery trips take 10 minutes max, I only end up using the car on weekends for hobbies or to visit family and friends.
I live in suburbia and the grocery store on the edge of my neighborhood is accessible via a dirt desire path. This beats so many of my friends neighborhoods, but these numbskulls couldn’t pour the 20 feet of sidewalk to connect the commercial to the residential, even though the sidewalk has a 2 foot long spur where it should be. 100% car brained.
Still, running to the store on my bike is just as fast as driving, if not a few mins faster.
“Car-free cities” gave the wrong idea. I’d call them walk-friendly cities instead, but I guess that ship has already sailed. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and first-hand experience.
The term “city” can actually be confusing too since it might mean the most central district of a metropolitan area, or it could mean the whole metropolitan area. There is some desire to make the most central parts car free in the way you thought (usually street by street in the centre of the CBD etc), but generally the broader area will not be.
What do you do if the city has high slopes making walking and biking too hard?
skill issue. i live in a very hilly area and when i reach a steep slope i simply bike harder.
this is ableist as hell tbh
There’s wheelchair accessible bikes, but you are actually correct. Good urbanism requires us to take into account not just those who conform to society, but all it’s people. Interestingly an inclusive and accommodating city is also an economically strong one - in the long run more productive potential is freed and less resources are spent on patch-fixing a broken structure (this isn’t why its good to do, but it’s a nice argument to have when you’re talking to people who are afraid that wed be making a better world for no reason other being good people).
This is your reminder to read Invisible Women by Criado Perez
There’s wheelchair accessible bikes
oh damn that’s cool as hell. as a general statement i’m not anti-bike or anything, i am just annoyed at how little care some people here have for those who are less able than they are
Good urbanism requires us to take into account not just those who conform to society, but all it’s people
100% agreed, and i think our rhetoric should reflect that inclusiveness rather than just defaulting to “can’t do it? fuck you”
Yeah the bikes are super cool, there’s lots of different ones too. I once got overtaken by a guy who pedalled with his arms, made me feel like a scrub.
It is a big issue when we don’t plan for those that don’t fit into our ideal of a “normal” person, because when we default to that we default to planning for men - and really planning for no one.
If you’re interested you should look up “gendermainstreaming”. Vienna has a very good manual on it.I think people here get defensive about bikes because they’re used to arguing against carbrained folks all the time. It should also be noted a city designed for bikes and walkability will be easier to travel in for those who have trouble walking, than a city designed for cars, even if concessions aren’t made.
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just a friendly heads up, I think you misgendered the person you were referring to.
oh shit! i feel like an asshole. my bad, i am fixing it
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no, saying skill issue to people who aren’t able to bike up steep hills when there are other options such as pedal assist is unhelpful and ableist. it doesn’t take being a ‘thinker’ to deduce that.
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Use an ebike?
Consider people who are physically impaired instead of dismissing real problems?
There are many forms of personal mobility devices (some are even like speed limited, miniature, single person EVs) that make navigating a car free city easy for someone with impaired mobility.
Getting cars out of the way makes it easier to accommodate many levels of movement ability, not harder.
Yes we agree. So the response is not “its not an issue” the response is that there are alternatives to bikes. I perceived your response as a sort of sarcastic dismissal and I see now I misread the tone and content, sorry.
“What seems to work best is a carrot-and-stick approach—creating positive reasons to take a bus or to cycle rather than just making driving harder.”
I guess this is why we shouldn’t only play the “fuck cars” tune but also include melodies like “we love to bike” and “public transport is fun” 😉
public transport is fun
Unfortunately here public transport is seen as something best left to ‘the market’, instead of treating it as a public commodity which gets its economic value from enabling people to contribute to economy by enabling them to get to work, go shopping etc. So now ticket prices are ridiculous, to the point where taking the car is 2-3 times cheaper. And of course you’ll need to get to said transport first. Need a bus? If you do not live in a city or larger town you’re just shit out of luck after 18:00 or so. Need to be somewhere, somewhat early in the morning? Wel tough luck for you, make sure to have somebody with a car standby to drop you off at the nearest train station. I want to like public transport and consider it fun, but my experience every time I try it is pain, suffering and awkward schedules instead. ☹️
Can you specify where “here” is?
Okay, now factor in car insurance and maintenance costs. I don’t buy your statement “taking the car is 2-3 times cheaper”.
It’s definitely not generally cheaper in Germany if you only need to move regional. But I’m interested in a comparison with any other country. I guess an urban area would be a requirement for a fair comparison.
If you care to look further into this, look for cost per kilometer estimates, factoring all the costs of owning your own vehicle vs. the cost per kilometer of taking public transit.
Public transport IS fun! Much easier to masturbate on the train than while driving a car
Unfortunately it’s easier (say: cheaper) to make driving so expensive and hard that it makes public transport look like the carrot, than actually making public transport more attractive so it actually becomes the carrot.
That’s why the method is called carrot and stick!
