Is there a FAQ about living in car free cities? For example, how do you travel to another city? What do you do if the city has high slopes making walking and biking too hard? Or how do elders deal with what other citizens would take for granted in terms of mobility?
What do you do if the city has high slopes making walking and biking too hard?
E-bikes and regular bikes with good gearing. And walking up slopes generally isn’t too challenging it’s just slow. Infrastructure can help here too by making sure there are paths that don’t go up hills unnecessarily. Fast and frequent public transport provides another option where walking and biking is less viable.
For example, how do you travel to another city?
Trains and buses. Car as a last resort (preferably one that is hired rather than owned, and preferably electric rather than an ICE).
Or how do elders deal with what other citizens would take for granted in terms of mobility?
Elderly people can’t (or shouldn’t) drive either so better walkability = better for the elderly since it gives options to get around without relying on a car. Good infrastructure design can help with disability access, and many disabled people can’t drive anyway.
It’s cool and all, but trains have fixed routes that can’t take you almost everywhere. Of course I’d prefer trains over highways, just stating the current fact. Take for example every city I’ve lived in Mexico: trains never were an option to travel between cities. That’s changing, fortunately.
PEVs are still not very common around here, but that answers some questions. Thanks for your reply.
Train, bus, electrical bike, rideshares for the last mile maybe.
What do you do if the city has high slopes making walking and biking too hard?
Get off and walk, use a bike with electrical assistance, use a different type of mobility assistance if i am very physically impaired.
how do elders deal with what other citizens would take for granted in terms of mobility?
See above + Elders are typically more physically able due to having lived a life of regular everyday exery + their everyday destinations are not several miles away + “car free” doesn’t paradoxically mean free of cars, just almost all cars - ambulances are still needed for example - as such if a person is so impaired that no mobility assistance is enough to get them to their destination, then they can still be taxied by help.
There’s wheelchair accessible bikes, but you are actually correct. Good urbanism requires us to take into account not just those who conform to society, but all it’s people. Interestingly an inclusive and accommodating city is also an economically strong one - in the long run more productive potential is freed and less resources are spent on patch-fixing a broken structure (this isn’t why its good to do, but it’s a nice argument to have when you’re talking to people who are afraid that wed be making a better world for no reason other being good people).
This is your reminder to read Invisible Women by Criado Perez
oh damn that’s cool as hell. as a general statement i’m not anti-bike or anything, i am just annoyed at how little care some people here have for those who are less able than they are
Good urbanism requires us to take into account not just those who conform to society, but all it’s people
100% agreed, and i think our rhetoric should reflect that inclusiveness rather than just defaulting to “can’t do it? fuck you”
Yeah the bikes are super cool, there’s lots of different ones too. I once got overtaken by a guy who pedalled with his arms, made me feel like a scrub.
It is a big issue when we don’t plan for those that don’t fit into our ideal of a “normal” person, because when we default to that we default to planning for men - and really planning for no one.
If you’re interested you should look up “gendermainstreaming”. Vienna has a very good manual on it.
I think people here get defensive about bikes because they’re used to arguing against carbrained folks all the time. It should also be noted a city designed for bikes and walkability will be easier to travel in for those who have trouble walking, than a city designed for cars, even if concessions aren’t made.
no, saying skill issue to people who aren’t able to bike up steep hills when there are other options such as pedal assist is unhelpful and ableist. it doesn’t take being a ‘thinker’ to deduce that.
Why double down on this of all things? It’s not even necessarily about a medical condition (but it’s that too, for many of us it’s not a skill issue but a heart and lung issue), it’s about the fact that biking up a hill can be fucking hard and I wouldn’t begrudge anyone for not wanting to do it all the time living in a hilly city, let alone if they’re trying to get home after working all day and are dead tired. The person who you were first responding to, who was asking in good faith from everything I can tell, also said “how do elders deal with what other citizens would take for granted in terms of mobility?” You completely disregarded that. Would you tell your 80 year old grandparent just to bike harder in their hilly city? This is a totally legitimate concern and responding “skill issue, just bike harder” really is heading into some ableist territory.
“obviously the exceptions that make it so my comments aren’t fitting and showcase ableism don’t count. Everyone know that. You are the stupid one. I have depicted myself as the streamer for a third time to hammer this home.”
The initial question is about those who are too physically unfit to scale a steep hill. Responding with “skill issue” is ableist specifically because we’re talking about the “exception”
There are many forms of personal mobility devices (some are even like speed limited, miniature, single person EVs) that make navigating a car free city easy for someone with impaired mobility.
Getting cars out of the way makes it easier to accommodate many levels of movement ability, not harder.
Yes we agree. So the response is not “its not an issue” the response is that there are alternatives to bikes. I perceived your response as a sort of sarcastic dismissal and I see now I misread the tone and content, sorry.
Also “car free” doesn’t have to mean literally zero cars allowed, but just build and layout the city so you never have to use one for daily errands.
I live next to a grocery store and it’s literally the best thing ever, grocery trips take 10 minutes max, I only end up using the car on weekends for hobbies or to visit family and friends.
I live in suburbia and the grocery store on the edge of my neighborhood is accessible via a dirt desire path. This beats so many of my friends neighborhoods, but these numbskulls couldn’t pour the 20 feet of sidewalk to connect the commercial to the residential, even though the sidewalk has a 2 foot long spur where it should be. 100% car brained.
Still, running to the store on my bike is just as fast as driving, if not a few mins faster.
“Car-free cities” gave the wrong idea. I’d call them walk-friendly cities instead, but I guess that ship has already sailed. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and first-hand experience.
The term “city” can actually be confusing too since it might mean the most central district of a metropolitan area, or it could mean the whole metropolitan area. There is some desire to make the most central parts car free in the way you thought (usually street by street in the centre of the CBD etc), but generally the broader area will not be.
Is there a FAQ about living in car free cities? For example, how do you travel to another city? What do you do if the city has high slopes making walking and biking too hard? Or how do elders deal with what other citizens would take for granted in terms of mobility?
E-bikes and regular bikes with good gearing. And walking up slopes generally isn’t too challenging it’s just slow. Infrastructure can help here too by making sure there are paths that don’t go up hills unnecessarily. Fast and frequent public transport provides another option where walking and biking is less viable.
Trains and buses. Car as a last resort (preferably one that is hired rather than owned, and preferably electric rather than an ICE).
Elderly people can’t (or shouldn’t) drive either so better walkability = better for the elderly since it gives options to get around without relying on a car. Good infrastructure design can help with disability access, and many disabled people can’t drive anyway.
You shift to a lower gear and go up the hill
Trains.
Cool stuff
PEVs
It’s cool and all, but trains have fixed routes that can’t take you almost everywhere. Of course I’d prefer trains over highways, just stating the current fact. Take for example every city I’ve lived in Mexico: trains never were an option to travel between cities. That’s changing, fortunately.
PEVs are still not very common around here, but that answers some questions. Thanks for your reply.
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Train, bus, electrical bike, rideshares for the last mile maybe.
Get off and walk, use a bike with electrical assistance, use a different type of mobility assistance if i am very physically impaired.
See above + Elders are typically more physically able due to having lived a life of regular everyday exery + their everyday destinations are not several miles away + “car free” doesn’t paradoxically mean free of cars, just almost all cars - ambulances are still needed for example - as such if a person is so impaired that no mobility assistance is enough to get them to their destination, then they can still be taxied by help.
skill issue. i live in a very hilly area and when i reach a steep slope i simply bike harder.
this is ableist as hell tbh
There’s wheelchair accessible bikes, but you are actually correct. Good urbanism requires us to take into account not just those who conform to society, but all it’s people. Interestingly an inclusive and accommodating city is also an economically strong one - in the long run more productive potential is freed and less resources are spent on patch-fixing a broken structure (this isn’t why its good to do, but it’s a nice argument to have when you’re talking to people who are afraid that wed be making a better world for no reason other being good people).
This is your reminder to read Invisible Women by Criado Perez
oh damn that’s cool as hell. as a general statement i’m not anti-bike or anything, i am just annoyed at how little care some people here have for those who are less able than they are
100% agreed, and i think our rhetoric should reflect that inclusiveness rather than just defaulting to “can’t do it? fuck you”
Yeah the bikes are super cool, there’s lots of different ones too. I once got overtaken by a guy who pedalled with his arms, made me feel like a scrub.
It is a big issue when we don’t plan for those that don’t fit into our ideal of a “normal” person, because when we default to that we default to planning for men - and really planning for no one.
If you’re interested you should look up “gendermainstreaming”. Vienna has a very good manual on it.
I think people here get defensive about bikes because they’re used to arguing against carbrained folks all the time. It should also be noted a city designed for bikes and walkability will be easier to travel in for those who have trouble walking, than a city designed for cars, even if concessions aren’t made.
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just a friendly heads up, I think you misgendered the person you were referring to.
oh shit! i feel like an asshole. my bad, i am fixing it
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no, saying skill issue to people who aren’t able to bike up steep hills when there are other options such as pedal assist is unhelpful and ableist. it doesn’t take being a ‘thinker’ to deduce that.
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Why double down on this of all things? It’s not even necessarily about a medical condition (but it’s that too, for many of us it’s not a skill issue but a heart and lung issue), it’s about the fact that biking up a hill can be fucking hard and I wouldn’t begrudge anyone for not wanting to do it all the time living in a hilly city, let alone if they’re trying to get home after working all day and are dead tired. The person who you were first responding to, who was asking in good faith from everything I can tell, also said “how do elders deal with what other citizens would take for granted in terms of mobility?” You completely disregarded that. Would you tell your 80 year old grandparent just to bike harder in their hilly city? This is a totally legitimate concern and responding “skill issue, just bike harder” really is heading into some ableist territory.
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“obviously the exceptions that make it so my comments aren’t fitting and showcase ableism don’t count. Everyone know that. You are the stupid one. I have depicted myself as the streamer for a third time to hammer this home.”
The initial question is about those who are too physically unfit to scale a steep hill. Responding with “skill issue” is ableist specifically because we’re talking about the “exception”
Use an ebike?
Consider people who are physically impaired instead of dismissing real problems?
There are many forms of personal mobility devices (some are even like speed limited, miniature, single person EVs) that make navigating a car free city easy for someone with impaired mobility.
Getting cars out of the way makes it easier to accommodate many levels of movement ability, not harder.
Yes we agree. So the response is not “its not an issue” the response is that there are alternatives to bikes. I perceived your response as a sort of sarcastic dismissal and I see now I misread the tone and content, sorry.
Also “car free” doesn’t have to mean literally zero cars allowed, but just build and layout the city so you never have to use one for daily errands.
I live next to a grocery store and it’s literally the best thing ever, grocery trips take 10 minutes max, I only end up using the car on weekends for hobbies or to visit family and friends.
I live in suburbia and the grocery store on the edge of my neighborhood is accessible via a dirt desire path. This beats so many of my friends neighborhoods, but these numbskulls couldn’t pour the 20 feet of sidewalk to connect the commercial to the residential, even though the sidewalk has a 2 foot long spur where it should be. 100% car brained.
Still, running to the store on my bike is just as fast as driving, if not a few mins faster.
“Car-free cities” gave the wrong idea. I’d call them walk-friendly cities instead, but I guess that ship has already sailed. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and first-hand experience.
The term “city” can actually be confusing too since it might mean the most central district of a metropolitan area, or it could mean the whole metropolitan area. There is some desire to make the most central parts car free in the way you thought (usually street by street in the centre of the CBD etc), but generally the broader area will not be.