Gazan population doubles in 2 decades: help! There’s a genocide!
What the jews got was the purposeful death of innocent civilians. Just watch jewish numbers in the world before and after WW2. What gazans get is a war. Yes, civilians die in wars, and that’s an awful thing. Israel should’ve done everything to prevent this war, but didn’t. Bibi has a lot to answer.
But comparing the Holocaust to gaza is just absurd. You can take a side in a conflict without baseless accusations, Israel has already a lot to answer to. But purposefully killing civilians? We’ve yet to see that from Israel, only from Hamas…
Nobody owes you a “debate”. Thats what people like you always want, to waste peoples time dragging them into a pointless “debate” where you had no intention of arguing in good faith from the start. Its why the best way to deal with scum like you is to just tell you to fuck off, block you and then let you cry into the void about people not “debating” you.
No man, no one owes me anything, I just asked if you had anything better to say than just calling names which is just destructive. So yeah, I agree about the blocking part of me not wanting anything to do with someone who can’t even hear opinions who are contrary to his own, and just name calling them.
Extermination is first stage 9 out of 10 of Stantons 10 stages of genocide. And as the article also points out, extermination is only one approach to genocide, and not required to meet the UN definition.
That you conflate genocide with inherently requires mass murder just demonstrates that you don’t know what genocide is.
Maybe you should actually read and try to understand the article.
I see that genocide is not just murdering innocent, but still there’s a lost nuance in this article that Israel is only addressing the Palestinian leaders (Hamas), not the Palestinian population as a whole.
That’s a very huge distinction, since jews in the Holocaust were just regular citizens in a country, without a murderous leadership. Palestinians are different in that regard - they have a terrorist organization running their territory, and no one but Israel can/will do anything about that. No one is considering how good Gazans could’ve lived if their leaders weren’t terrorists.
And nobody can fight a terrorist organization without civilian casualties. That’s war. Calling it a genocide is in my eyes dishonest to actual genocides where innocent people are being called animals and pillaged and slaughtered. Palestinians are poor people, but there’s definitely not only one aggressor against them.
but still there’s a lost nuance in this article that Israel is only addressing the Palestinian leaders (Hamas), not the Palestinian population as a whole.
Sorry, but that is pure and utter bullshit and shows you trying to justify Israels actions in a way not even Israels own government does.
That’s a very huge distinction, since jews in the Holocaust were just regular citizens in a country, without a murderous leadership. Palestinians are different in that regard - they have a terrorist organization running their territory, and no one but Israel can/will do anything about that. No one is considering how good Gazans could’ve lived if their leaders weren’t terrorists.
If Israel was actually only narrowly targeting Hamas, then that’d be great. Polls shows most people in Gaza would prefer the PA control Gaza too. I’ve posted links and images of those polls several times. But the idea that is all Israel is doing is pure fiction.
And nobody can fight a terrorist organization without civilian casualties.
Nobody is asking for that. People are asking for them to not engage in genocide. People have also been asking them - for many decades - to stop engaging in Apartheid and other brutally war crimes and human rights violations. Hamas only exists in the first place because of Israeli oppression and because Israeli encouraged opposition to Fatah. The violence of Hamas against both Israel and the Palestinian population is also part of Israels responsibility. They brought it on, and they therefore has a special responsibility to not worsen the situation even further through even more harm against civilians who have done nothing wrong and who have all been victims of Israel their whole lives, and a large proportion have also been victims of Hamas their whole lives.
Calling it a genocide is in my eyes dishonest to actual genocides where innocent people are being called animals and pillaged and slaughtered.
Denying the evidence for what Israel is engaging in is vile and dishonest against the Palestinian population.
Palestinians are poor people, but there’s definitely not only one aggressor against them.
That is true. But they’re not helped by apologists for the brutally oppressive Israeli apartheid regime.
I mean, their current actions are tbh pretty justified. They have 200 innocent kidnapped civilians. And I have yet to see the Israeli government officially target Palestinian people in their attacks, physical or verbal. All of their aggression is focused on Hamas.
And about Israel not narrowly targeting Hamas - idk what to tell you… I legit don’t hear of any attacks Israel does without there being a Hamas HQ/Storehouse (and even when they’re a legit target, they alert people to evacuate beforehand… What other country in the world does this to their enemies???). Maybe I don’t look hard enough, but from what I can see they legit only target places with arsenal value for Hamas.
People are asking for them to not engage in genocide
And again I stress, I don’t see them targeting Palestinian civilians. Not in their attacks, not in their language. Plenty of Palestinian civilian die, but Israel is less responsible for them than Hamas is - and I see plenty of accusation towards Israel, not towards Hama - which are the main cause for Gazans’ suffering.
stop engaging in Apartheid
Context. I agree about the Apartheid in some some parts (West Bank) but there’s so much nuance there that’s it’s hard to actually define as Apartheid - they’re not actual citizens and they have their own government (PA). Their government doesn’t do much, and they’re under Israeli power - but neither Israelis nor Palestinians consider Palestinians as Israelis - so naming it Apartheid is just not accurate. They’re just a different people.
Denying the evidence for what Israel is engaging in
Nobody denies what they’re doing - I just give them a break considering they’re fighting a war against an organization who benefits from civilian casualties (on both sides…). And no other country in the world is facing that kind of challenge. Maybe consider what they practically could do to keep their security. If they don’t strike hard now - their enemies (pretty much all of their neighbors - another issue they alone face) will all take advantage of and kill them.
not helped by apologists for the brutally oppressive Israeli apartheid regime
They’re also not helped by “woke” distortion of reality which makes the Israeli people only support their right wing government more against the world who very verbosely stick their nose in a conflict thousands of kms away, taking the easy way out of supporting the underdog, no matter what that underdog is actually like.
The violence of Hamas against both Israel and the Palestinian population is also part of Israels responsibility
I actually agree to that. Israel('s government) was comfortable having a terrorist organization being the face of Gazans making them easily hateable. And that led to the horrible deaths of civilians on both sides. The Israeli government have a part in this - smaller than Hamas - but definitely a part which they should answer for. I just don’t see protesting against their response now is helping anything - now they should and they do wipe Hamas out entirely - something they needed to do years ago.
Peace is now impossible between Israel and Gazans directly. Without a third party (heavily) involved, nothing could be done now to correct those relations. Maybe Egypt will step up to it, but they’re also have a bias in this conflict, and even an incentive for it to go on. So I doubt anything real will happen.
The Jewish population also increased in the ghettos before the Nazis decided to clear the Ghettos. Maybe you should go read the UN definition of genocide before saying stupid shit?
Either way tho, that wasn’t my main point. My main point is that Israel is fighting a war against Palestinian leaders, not killing civilians needlessly. And that’s a nuance that’s not addressed in this article, or in most pro-palestinian text I read.
I don’t think he’s calling the last two decades genocide, but he is calling the last two weeks genocide. The language is genocidal, refusing to allow Palestinians a way to escape is murderous, and the limited aid coming from Egypt won’t be enough to keep Palestinians afloat. If kept up, the blockade of necessary resources will kill more people in the coming months than the air strikes ever could.
I agree the past 2 weeks are inhumane against Palestinians, but blaming it entirely on Israel is dishonest given they still have civilians kidnapped and probably tortured (not based on a tin foil hat, based on the bodies of dead Israelis).
I do believe they’ll let help come from Egypt before it gets catastrophic, because they also don’t want a humanitarian disaster to happen. That’ll only move more people towards Hamas, which is of course against their interests.
And about the language - not once have I heard an Israeli official calling the Palestinian people animals - only their leadership (which let’s face it - they are animals). And because Israel is a free state, and part of the free world, they’ll get backlash for saying anything of that nature.
I just don’t think we’ll even come to that - since Israel just doesn’t wanna involve itself with Gaza at all besides destroying Hamas.
I didn’t blame Israel for Hamas killing civilians, I blamed them for letting hamas get so powerful that they could execute such a devastating attack.
Israel does not care about pushing civilians towards Hamas, as they have mostly done just that for the last few decades. They refused to support more moderate Palestinians forces, instead causing economic hardship for all Palestinians, while stealing territory from the West Bank where Hamas has less power. If they didn’t want a humanitarian crisis, they wouldn’t have blockaded essential resources. They demanded over a million people evacuate from half of Gaza in 24 hours, something that would be nearly impossible in even wealthy countries with functioning governments. Even if Gaza had a government willing to move those people, the request would still be impossible.
When the government originally said they were “fighting animals,” they did not specify Hamas. In fact, they were telling all Palestinians that they would be cut off from essentials. Bibi and his allies have been trying their hardest to make Israel a less free country, an explicit Jewish theocracy. The idea that the “free world,” would speak up is laughable when fascist parties are serious threats in every liberal democracy. The Republicans in the US have been even more explicitly genocidal against Palestinians than Israel’s government, dehumanizing all Muslims and inspiring hate crimes. It’s nothing new as they have been demanding trans people be banned from public life for the last few years. Most Democrats refuse to speak up enough, as they value their middle eastern ally way too much. The right wing in Israel want to steal Palestinian land and force the people into exile, as they have no sense of irony.
I agree about Israeli goverment being way too right wing, trying to take more Palestinian land. That just sucks, and it’s a worldwide trend of countries becoming less liberal.
And yeah Israel 100% messed up horribly about letting Hamas being so powerful. Bibi has so much to answer to and by his character he won’t and blame it on others.
And about the humanitarian crisis - let’s be real - nobody expected Gazans to clear the northen part in 24 hours - the IDF itself issued more warnings after that initial 24 hour one because of course they did - it’s ridiculous thinking otherwise. It’s been almost a week since then and they still haven’t invaded - plenty of time for evacuation. And blocking of resources is also over with Rafah crossing (about Israel’s support of food/water/electricity - it’s understandable why they don’t wanna spend their money giving them that right now…)
And about Israel not supporting more moderate Palestinian forces, I don’t know about that… The last time Israel supported the PA was the Oslo Accords which is wildly regarded in Israel as a good step for peace, and a very bad move for Israeli security - the second intifada has definitely been more deadly because of it.
But even after all of that - that’s just the current government - and unlike Hamas, they don’t control the whole state. There’s an opposition, there’s a separate military, a separate court… The extremists don’t have all the power. And hopefully after those events Israelis will realize they’re a danger not only to Palestinians, but for Israelis.
Egypt closed the border indefinitely. So no, there will be no help coming from Egypt “before it gets catastrophic”. The reason for that is that Israel shelled the border again. Article here
Hamas is the foster child of Netanyahu and his ilk. They have been funding Hamas for a long time because it keeps the Palestinian Authority down. Article here
That’s news from 10 days ago, just search “rafah crossing” and see that aid is being pushed through right now. Because of course it is.
And yeah, the Israeli right wing government is stupid in fostering Hamas, since it suited his needs of having no peace talks with Palestinians. Bibi is corrupt to the bone, and maybe the only good thing from this situation is his demise from power. Maybe that’ll allow actual good policies to pass through.
Nah, I’m just some dude with an opinion on the internet. I think that every country should have a right for proper defense, and proper safety for its citizens. And that includes Palestinians. But to think that the source for that defense should be Israel who are suffering their own casualties is not fair by the world. And Israel tbh is doing the bare minimum in Gaza (up until 2 weeks ago) which is definitely not good, but not as awful as a genocide.
After the events of Saturday tho, I can’t blame them for stopping that bare minimum of protection. They’re at war and can’t enjoy that luxury.
sure give as many weapons as you can to a government and people who are not ashamed and have proven over and over and over again that they can and will attack Israel and its citizens. I think the only solution here is to take them out of the land or make them all Israelis so they wont want to destroy themselves, but there’s not guarantee of that. The problem is very much with the government of the PLO and Hamas and the people should be given a choice to choose and alternatives Israel has never addresed reperations for palesitnians who lost their land during the 3 big wars. Of course, they dont need to do this, but will be a gesture of peace and reconciliation. On the other hand, this is literally what foreign aid is to the palestinians and that is why the receive and look what they have done with it. A people who continue to make stupid decisions and abuse their own people are not capable of leading themselves, literally.
100% agree. And with how right wing the Israel government is right now, there’s no way they’ll address reparations for Palestinians anytime soon (the country already was going right, now after the Hamas attack you can bet more right wing aprties will take more power in Israel).
Israel needs to get themselves together and work towards peace, with the rest of the world’s back as insurance of Palestinians not doing dumb stuff (which meanwhile is the only thing Palestinian leaders did).
Well, looks like neither are the world leaders, since they go towards my way of looking at things (allowing Israel to defend itself, while not being simultaneously humane and giving food/water/electricity to their enemies).
Gazan population doubles in 2 decades: help! There’s a genocide!
What the jews got was the purposeful death of innocent civilians. Just watch jewish numbers in the world before and after WW2. What gazans get is a war. Yes, civilians die in wars, and that’s an awful thing. Israel should’ve done everything to prevent this war, but didn’t. Bibi has a lot to answer.
But comparing the Holocaust to gaza is just absurd. You can take a side in a conflict without baseless accusations, Israel has already a lot to answer to. But purposefully killing civilians? We’ve yet to see that from Israel, only from Hamas…
And there’s also genocide apologists like you
Could you enlighten me on what I said that wasn’t correct? Instead of throwing titles how about actually explaining your case?
Nobody owes you a “debate”. Thats what people like you always want, to waste peoples time dragging them into a pointless “debate” where you had no intention of arguing in good faith from the start. Its why the best way to deal with scum like you is to just tell you to fuck off, block you and then let you cry into the void about people not “debating” you.
No man, no one owes me anything, I just asked if you had anything better to say than just calling names which is just destructive. So yeah, I agree about the blocking part of me not wanting anything to do with someone who can’t even hear opinions who are contrary to his own, and just name calling them.
Extermination is first stage 9 out of 10 of Stantons 10 stages of genocide. And as the article also points out, extermination is only one approach to genocide, and not required to meet the UN definition.
That you conflate genocide with inherently requires mass murder just demonstrates that you don’t know what genocide is.
Maybe you should actually read and try to understand the article.
I see that genocide is not just murdering innocent, but still there’s a lost nuance in this article that Israel is only addressing the Palestinian leaders (Hamas), not the Palestinian population as a whole.
That’s a very huge distinction, since jews in the Holocaust were just regular citizens in a country, without a murderous leadership. Palestinians are different in that regard - they have a terrorist organization running their territory, and no one but Israel can/will do anything about that. No one is considering how good Gazans could’ve lived if their leaders weren’t terrorists.
And nobody can fight a terrorist organization without civilian casualties. That’s war. Calling it a genocide is in my eyes dishonest to actual genocides where innocent people are being called animals and pillaged and slaughtered. Palestinians are poor people, but there’s definitely not only one aggressor against them.
Sorry, but that is pure and utter bullshit and shows you trying to justify Israels actions in a way not even Israels own government does.
If Israel was actually only narrowly targeting Hamas, then that’d be great. Polls shows most people in Gaza would prefer the PA control Gaza too. I’ve posted links and images of those polls several times. But the idea that is all Israel is doing is pure fiction.
Nobody is asking for that. People are asking for them to not engage in genocide. People have also been asking them - for many decades - to stop engaging in Apartheid and other brutally war crimes and human rights violations. Hamas only exists in the first place because of Israeli oppression and because Israeli encouraged opposition to Fatah. The violence of Hamas against both Israel and the Palestinian population is also part of Israels responsibility. They brought it on, and they therefore has a special responsibility to not worsen the situation even further through even more harm against civilians who have done nothing wrong and who have all been victims of Israel their whole lives, and a large proportion have also been victims of Hamas their whole lives.
Denying the evidence for what Israel is engaging in is vile and dishonest against the Palestinian population.
That is true. But they’re not helped by apologists for the brutally oppressive Israeli apartheid regime.
I mean, their current actions are tbh pretty justified. They have 200 innocent kidnapped civilians. And I have yet to see the Israeli government officially target Palestinian people in their attacks, physical or verbal. All of their aggression is focused on Hamas.
And about Israel not narrowly targeting Hamas - idk what to tell you… I legit don’t hear of any attacks Israel does without there being a Hamas HQ/Storehouse (and even when they’re a legit target, they alert people to evacuate beforehand… What other country in the world does this to their enemies???). Maybe I don’t look hard enough, but from what I can see they legit only target places with arsenal value for Hamas.
And again I stress, I don’t see them targeting Palestinian civilians. Not in their attacks, not in their language. Plenty of Palestinian civilian die, but Israel is less responsible for them than Hamas is - and I see plenty of accusation towards Israel, not towards Hama - which are the main cause for Gazans’ suffering.
Context. I agree about the Apartheid in some some parts (West Bank) but there’s so much nuance there that’s it’s hard to actually define as Apartheid - they’re not actual citizens and they have their own government (PA). Their government doesn’t do much, and they’re under Israeli power - but neither Israelis nor Palestinians consider Palestinians as Israelis - so naming it Apartheid is just not accurate. They’re just a different people.
Nobody denies what they’re doing - I just give them a break considering they’re fighting a war against an organization who benefits from civilian casualties (on both sides…). And no other country in the world is facing that kind of challenge. Maybe consider what they practically could do to keep their security. If they don’t strike hard now - their enemies (pretty much all of their neighbors - another issue they alone face) will all take advantage of and kill them.
They’re also not helped by “woke” distortion of reality which makes the Israeli people only support their right wing government more against the world who very verbosely stick their nose in a conflict thousands of kms away, taking the easy way out of supporting the underdog, no matter what that underdog is actually like.
I actually agree to that. Israel('s government) was comfortable having a terrorist organization being the face of Gazans making them easily hateable. And that led to the horrible deaths of civilians on both sides. The Israeli government have a part in this - smaller than Hamas - but definitely a part which they should answer for. I just don’t see protesting against their response now is helping anything - now they should and they do wipe Hamas out entirely - something they needed to do years ago.
Peace is now impossible between Israel and Gazans directly. Without a third party (heavily) involved, nothing could be done now to correct those relations. Maybe Egypt will step up to it, but they’re also have a bias in this conflict, and even an incentive for it to go on. So I doubt anything real will happen.
The Jewish population also increased in the ghettos before the Nazis decided to clear the Ghettos. Maybe you should go read the UN definition of genocide before saying stupid shit?
Source? That sounds like an interesting read
Either way tho, that wasn’t my main point. My main point is that Israel is fighting a war against Palestinian leaders, not killing civilians needlessly. And that’s a nuance that’s not addressed in this article, or in most pro-palestinian text I read.
I don’t think he’s calling the last two decades genocide, but he is calling the last two weeks genocide. The language is genocidal, refusing to allow Palestinians a way to escape is murderous, and the limited aid coming from Egypt won’t be enough to keep Palestinians afloat. If kept up, the blockade of necessary resources will kill more people in the coming months than the air strikes ever could.
I agree the past 2 weeks are inhumane against Palestinians, but blaming it entirely on Israel is dishonest given they still have civilians kidnapped and probably tortured (not based on a tin foil hat, based on the bodies of dead Israelis).
I do believe they’ll let help come from Egypt before it gets catastrophic, because they also don’t want a humanitarian disaster to happen. That’ll only move more people towards Hamas, which is of course against their interests.
And about the language - not once have I heard an Israeli official calling the Palestinian people animals - only their leadership (which let’s face it - they are animals). And because Israel is a free state, and part of the free world, they’ll get backlash for saying anything of that nature. I just don’t think we’ll even come to that - since Israel just doesn’t wanna involve itself with Gaza at all besides destroying Hamas.
I didn’t blame Israel for Hamas killing civilians, I blamed them for letting hamas get so powerful that they could execute such a devastating attack.
Israel does not care about pushing civilians towards Hamas, as they have mostly done just that for the last few decades. They refused to support more moderate Palestinians forces, instead causing economic hardship for all Palestinians, while stealing territory from the West Bank where Hamas has less power. If they didn’t want a humanitarian crisis, they wouldn’t have blockaded essential resources. They demanded over a million people evacuate from half of Gaza in 24 hours, something that would be nearly impossible in even wealthy countries with functioning governments. Even if Gaza had a government willing to move those people, the request would still be impossible.
When the government originally said they were “fighting animals,” they did not specify Hamas. In fact, they were telling all Palestinians that they would be cut off from essentials. Bibi and his allies have been trying their hardest to make Israel a less free country, an explicit Jewish theocracy. The idea that the “free world,” would speak up is laughable when fascist parties are serious threats in every liberal democracy. The Republicans in the US have been even more explicitly genocidal against Palestinians than Israel’s government, dehumanizing all Muslims and inspiring hate crimes. It’s nothing new as they have been demanding trans people be banned from public life for the last few years. Most Democrats refuse to speak up enough, as they value their middle eastern ally way too much. The right wing in Israel want to steal Palestinian land and force the people into exile, as they have no sense of irony.
I agree about Israeli goverment being way too right wing, trying to take more Palestinian land. That just sucks, and it’s a worldwide trend of countries becoming less liberal.
And yeah Israel 100% messed up horribly about letting Hamas being so powerful. Bibi has so much to answer to and by his character he won’t and blame it on others.
And about the humanitarian crisis - let’s be real - nobody expected Gazans to clear the northen part in 24 hours - the IDF itself issued more warnings after that initial 24 hour one because of course they did - it’s ridiculous thinking otherwise. It’s been almost a week since then and they still haven’t invaded - plenty of time for evacuation. And blocking of resources is also over with Rafah crossing (about Israel’s support of food/water/electricity - it’s understandable why they don’t wanna spend their money giving them that right now…)
And about Israel not supporting more moderate Palestinian forces, I don’t know about that… The last time Israel supported the PA was the Oslo Accords which is wildly regarded in Israel as a good step for peace, and a very bad move for Israeli security - the second intifada has definitely been more deadly because of it.
But even after all of that - that’s just the current government - and unlike Hamas, they don’t control the whole state. There’s an opposition, there’s a separate military, a separate court… The extremists don’t have all the power. And hopefully after those events Israelis will realize they’re a danger not only to Palestinians, but for Israelis.
Egypt closed the border indefinitely. So no, there will be no help coming from Egypt “before it gets catastrophic”. The reason for that is that Israel shelled the border again. Article here
Hamas is the foster child of Netanyahu and his ilk. They have been funding Hamas for a long time because it keeps the Palestinian Authority down. Article here
That’s news from 10 days ago, just search “rafah crossing” and see that aid is being pushed through right now. Because of course it is.
And yeah, the Israeli right wing government is stupid in fostering Hamas, since it suited his needs of having no peace talks with Palestinians. Bibi is corrupt to the bone, and maybe the only good thing from this situation is his demise from power. Maybe that’ll allow actual good policies to pass through.
Are you an expert? He is.
Nah, I’m just some dude with an opinion on the internet. I think that every country should have a right for proper defense, and proper safety for its citizens. And that includes Palestinians. But to think that the source for that defense should be Israel who are suffering their own casualties is not fair by the world. And Israel tbh is doing the bare minimum in Gaza (up until 2 weeks ago) which is definitely not good, but not as awful as a genocide.
After the events of Saturday tho, I can’t blame them for stopping that bare minimum of protection. They’re at war and can’t enjoy that luxury.
sure give as many weapons as you can to a government and people who are not ashamed and have proven over and over and over again that they can and will attack Israel and its citizens. I think the only solution here is to take them out of the land or make them all Israelis so they wont want to destroy themselves, but there’s not guarantee of that. The problem is very much with the government of the PLO and Hamas and the people should be given a choice to choose and alternatives Israel has never addresed reperations for palesitnians who lost their land during the 3 big wars. Of course, they dont need to do this, but will be a gesture of peace and reconciliation. On the other hand, this is literally what foreign aid is to the palestinians and that is why the receive and look what they have done with it. A people who continue to make stupid decisions and abuse their own people are not capable of leading themselves, literally.
100% agree. And with how right wing the Israel government is right now, there’s no way they’ll address reparations for Palestinians anytime soon (the country already was going right, now after the Hamas attack you can bet more right wing aprties will take more power in Israel).
Israel needs to get themselves together and work towards peace, with the rest of the world’s back as insurance of Palestinians not doing dumb stuff (which meanwhile is the only thing Palestinian leaders did).
Definitely not an expert.
Well, looks like neither are the world leaders, since they go towards my way of looking at things (allowing Israel to defend itself, while not being simultaneously humane and giving food/water/electricity to their enemies).