InfiniteGlitch

With everything that’s going on in the world, I feel like “freedom of speech” doesn’t exist. It’s just a “buzz”.

Just to name a few things;

• You want to criticize Israel? Antisemitism!
• You want to criticize US-related Israel things? Antisemitism!
• You want to provide evidence of crimes? That’s a ‘crime’!
• You are against killing innocent people? Antisemitism!
• You want to protest? You disrupt the order and therefore a crime!

Perhaps it is just me being pessimistic.

Israel did not start this bullshit no top finish the removal. Get real, that’s what we are getting.

I don’t really understand what you’re saying/ writing honestly. If you mean that Israel didn’t start this entire thing, I’d say, I disagree. Due to the history of how Israel become an actual state (1948, 750 000 displaced, lots of Palestinian murdered and many other atrocities). Not to mention the ongoing apartheid system, illegal settlers and such.

Real question is where are these people going or we just gonna let Israel massacre them at the Egyptian border?

That’s one of the main problems. If other countries let the Palestinian people in their country it’s a free-ticket for far-right extremist Israel to steal everything from the Palestinian land. Which is a no-no.

But if nothing is done, Israel will just keep bombing Gaza which results in innocent Palestinians being murdered by Israel.

So here we are; majority of the countries doing nothing, Palestinians being murdered and lots of protests around the world.

I hate to nitpick, but saying you’re ready to hammer out the details, does not mean you accept the deal

No, yeah. You are right however (The article below is from 6 May). Now I cannot remember whether it was accepted by both parties. But it shows that Hamas definitely are willing to accept deals whereas Israel is continuously deliberately trying to avoid any deals.

Israel Gaza: Hamas says it accepts ceasefire proposal

From the article:

Hamas says it has informed Qatari and Egyptian mediators that it has accepted their proposal for a new Gaza ceasefire and hostage release deal with Israel.

Your comment below (done this to avoid confusion between your comment and the text from the article);

I don’t believe Israel would have accepted any ceasefire at all, at most they’re open to a “pause”.

I agree somewhat. I, personally, believe that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu does not want a ceasefire. However, I think that normal civilians of Israel do want a ceasefire (especially the families of the hostages).

EDIT: Added a few sentences and corrected some words

The Israeli official made further comments blaming Hamas for the impasses, echoing the language of Israeli and US officials that “the ball is Hamas’s court” and that stopping the war is in their hands.

Did Hamas not accept a deal before while Israel (I assume their PM) rejected it? Found the article: Hamas accepts UN ceasefire resolution, ready to negotiate over details, official says

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu stating clearly that Israel does not support a permanent ceasefire.

Israel blaming Hamas for not having a ceasefire or any deal and then this written in the article.

Israel’s demand appears to be for Hamas to release all the hostages right now in exchange for a temporary ceasefire

I mean any sane person would understand Hamas won’t accept this. This means they lose all negotiation ‘material’ (could not find a better word, apologies). The deal should be something along lines of; release of all hostages and a permanent ceasefire.

Hamas has said it will only support a deal that includes a permanent ceasefire

Exactly this. They are willing to accept a deal, it is Israel who does not want to accept anything.

And certain countries and people will still shout the utter nonsense “right to defend themselves”.

Majority of the countries have failed humanity. They’re doing nothing after so many atrocities and the UN only have words but zero actual actions.

This pretty much shows and proves that one small state is the ‘leader’ of every country, even the US.

Let’s be honest though: if Israel stopped bombing immediately, do you think Hamas would stop randomly bombing and mortaring Israel? Sure, Israel is fucked up, but there’s a certain point where Palestine needs to realize they’ll never have peace with Hamas always looking to fight someone. It’s like complaining about the crime in your neighbor but you refuse to tell the cops where the local drug house is even with all the anonymity that technology offers.

do you think Hamas would stop randomly bombing and mortaring Israel?

No, of course they would not. They’re fighting to get their land, homes and human rights back and Israel is preventing all of it.

It’s like complaining about the crime in your neighbor but you refuse to tell the cops where the local drug house is even with all the anonymity that technology offers.

This argument is absurd. Because Israel started the entire conflict in 1948 (together with Britian if I remember correctly by ‘‘giving’’ the land).

Israel became an actual state in 1948 by displacing 750 000 Palestinian people and murdering many (men, women and children). Laying sieges, bombarding villages and population centers, setting fires to homes, properties and goods. Planting mines among the rubble to prevent any of the expelled people from returning (source: The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by ilan Pappé).

Hamas did not exist until 1987, they became an actual group only in 1987 because of all the horrifying things Israel had done from 1948 up until 1987. Which is approximately 40 years after what Israel had done to the Palestinian people.

If Israel never done any of this, Hamas would not even exist. They merely became an actual group to get normal human condition. Israel went hard into that and thus Hamas become more and more aggresive. Do I agree with their methods? Definitely not but it is understandable. If peaceful revolution is not possible, violence revolution is inevitable. Push a person or a group enough and this will happen.

Since almost all countries are turning a blind eye, what do you want Hamas to do (Wait, get humiliated and die)?

Also peace without Hamas? What peace are you talking about? Do you mean this kind of “peace”;

1. Strapped down, blindfolded, held in diapers: Israeli whistleblowers detail abuse of Palestinians in shadowy detention center.
2. Death toll in Israeli attack on displaced Palestinians in Rafah rises to 45.
3. Israeli forces’ systemic denial of fair trial rights to Palestinian child prisoners amounts to arbitrary detention.
4. Israel prevents hundreds of worshippers from entering Al-Aqsa on first night of Ramadan.
5. Israel’s PM Netanyahu ‘proud’ of preventing establishment of a Palestinian state.
6. Far-right minister says nuking Gaza an option, PM suspends him from cabinet meetings.
7. Israel Defense Minister Calls Palestinians ‘Human Animals’ Amid Israeli Aggression.
8. Video shows Israeli settler trying to take over Palestinian house.

Hamas even said they would lay down their weapons if an independent Palestinian state is established.

9. Hamas official says group would lay down its arms if an independent Palestinian state is established

EDIT: instead of downvoting, I’d love to hear a counter argument (from people, I haven’t blocked. Saw someone commented but must’ve been someone I blocked. Because, I can’t see/ open the comment). And if you do, give reliable sources otherwise it is just an opinion.

I’d rather argue they are willing to do so - in the hope for permanent ceasefire and peace. Anything to stop the bombing, dying, starvation and everything else.

May I ask which ones? I have ‘‘TTV LOL PRO’’ but it does not always block the ads. It’s 50/50.

Israel vows to press on in Gaza after UN Security Council approves ceasefire proposal

I suppose that’s the answer to your question.

From the article:

Israel has vowed to persist with its military operation in Gaza, saying it won’t engage in “meaningless” negotiations with Hamas, shortly after the United Nations Security Council overwhelmingly approved a US-backed ceasefire plan intended to bring an end to the eight-month war.

The senior diplomat said the war would not end until all hostages were returned and Hamas’ capabilities were “dismantled,” accusing the Palestinian militant group of using “endless negotiations… as a means to stall for time.”

Probably the fact that they started a war on Oct. 7th that they can’t win, as a starting point for escalation of conflict specifically.

So you are going to just ignore 76 years of history about this situation? Also Palestinians did not attack on 7 October 2023, it was Hamas. Normal Palestinian civilians are innocent. I will once again copy-past what, I said to another Lemmy user because it seems some particular people can’t (or won’t) do research themselves:

‘’Israel became an actual state in 1948 by displacing 750 000 Palestinian people and murdering many (men, women and children). Laying sieges, bombarding villages and population centers, setting fires to homes, properties and goods. Planting mines among the rubble to prevent any of the expelled people from returning (source: The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by ilan Pappé).

Hamas did not exist until 1987, they became an actual group only in 1987 because of all the horrifying things Israel had done from 1948 up until 1987. Which is approximately 40 years after what Israel had done to the Palestinian people.’’

If you want to go on the route ‘’who started this war’’; it’d be Israel and Britian who ‘’gave’’ the land to them.

that they can’t win, as a starting point for escalation of conflict specifically.

Obvious they cannot ‘win’ because it’s Israel state and the US country (US giving billions to Israel) versus a group of people. Hamas want their land, homes and humans right back.

The normal Palestinian civilians do not even want to fight at all. All they want is have human rights, be able to be free from occupation, torture. They don’t want to their entire families to be murdered out just because they’re Palestinians. It’s immensely bad what Hamas done on 7 October but it’s also immensely bad what Israel has been doing since 1948 up until 2024 (ongoing). If you push people far enough, they will fight back in the worst way possible and that’s happened.

Also imagine this; you are in your house with five family members. Suddenly group of 10 strangers force their way into your home, kill all your family members and force you in the bathroom for 10 years. For 10 years they have been living now, you manage to escape, fight back and kill several of these people. Now suddenly you are the aggressor, committed a crime and they (who took your home and killed your family) are the victims. That do be insane if it really happens right?

Well newsflash, that is truly happening to the Palestinian people.

According to Wikipedia article for “From the river to the sea”: "Many Palestinian activists have called it “a call for peace and equality” after decades of Israeli military rule over Palestinians while for Jews it is seen as a call for the “destruction” of Israel. Islamist militant faction Hamas used the phrase in its 2017 charter. Usage of the phrase by such Palestinian militant groups has led critics to claim that it advocates for the dismantling of Israel, and the removal or extermination of its Jewish population." So it’s not as clear-cut as you suggested. It says some Palestinians define is as a call for peace, but even if it was taken as such in the past, nowadays I have the impression it’s mosly used as a defense of the destruction of Isreal. If it was just for the peace of Palestine, they’d use a more specific sentence because the way it’s pharsed it includes the Isreal territory in their intentions of “freedom”. But they want to be free from what? Free from the Israeli people presence? The article you linked kind of confirm what the Wikipedia article said: each side has an interpretation of what this sentece entails, but I’m more interested in the practical usage of the sentence today, and in my opinion it’s mostly anti-Isreal.

So first of all Wikipedia is not reliable at all. Anyone can edit Wikipedia pages. Here’s a link to Wikipedia’s  own page about it. That said; where’s the article? You quote it but don’t give the actual link to it. That’s just air basically.

Wikipedia is a wiki, meaning anyone can edit nearly any page and improve articles immediately

Once again your impression and opinions do not matter. Actual evidence does. What you think or get the impression out of it doesn’t mean anything. What the phrase stands directly, how was meant from the beginning does.

You’re not qualified for political discussions if, you cannot write without your personal opinions mixed in. Because that basically means, your entire discussion is biased.

But they want to be free from what? Free from the Israeli people presence?

This sentence right here just proved that you clearly have no idea what you’re writing about. They want to be free from Israel’s oppression. Be freed from the Apartheid system, be freed from purposefully murdering of their families, be able to anywhere they like. Have human rights, have an own land, a place to be. I have said this in my previous comment, I’m just repeating it since you apparently didn’t read it.

Israel stole the entire land that the Palestinian people owned, murdered thousands of Palestinian people, build an open-air prison for Palestinians people and you’re asking “be freed from what?”

Half of that wall, of text of yours can be dismissed because it’s only your personal opinion and nothing factual based. So again, your personal opinion doesn’t mean anything but factual evidence does.

Not only that, Israel has been refusing two-state solution even before the 7 October attack. Stop trying to blame this on Hamas.

It is also worth to think about the fact that Israel stole everything of the Palestinian people, murdered entire Palestinian families and then expect the Palestinian people to be “peaceful”. That’s just not do able. If peaceful revolution is not possible, violent revolution is inevitable.

Now about the “Hamas Flag”;

It’s not necessarily a Hamas flag. I don’t think you are able to read Arabic (do you? Genuine question).

The written text on the flag says “la ilaha illallah muhammadur rasulullah” which translates to “There’s no god but Allah and Muhammad (PBUH) is his messenger”.

It’s the Shahada of the Islamic religion (IE: Religious flag) and not a ”Hamas” flag. Yeah they’re using  the Shahada, doesn’t mean they “own” the Shahada.

In every comment you give to people, you purposefully mix things up to confuse other people, throw your own personal opinions in, you don’t give reliable sources, you write about things you clearly have no idea about and you flat-out lie.

There’s nothing you can write to justify killing 36 000 people, the things that was said by Israeli officials and the lying of the Israeli government.

Note: use paragraphs next time, it’s not really easy to read a wall of text.

When they chant “from the river to the sea Palestine will be free”, what do you think they want? Israel is located between said river and sea, so they want to exterminate all Israeli so the land is all theirs. The extermination of all Jews is codified in written form in the Hamas Constitution.

You just love to spread immense misinformation.

You should actually educate yourself in this particular matter if you want to write and speak on the slogan. Don’t just blabber your personal opinion, give sources. Your personal opinion doesn’t matter, actual evidence does.

Not only that, do you know that Israel has made a slogan exactly like that too. So by your definition; Israel wants to exterminate all Palestinian people (and they’re currently doing so with the genocide)

If there are people there who only want to advocate for the Two State Solution for Israel/Palestine, that’s a fair point to make. But when these people, knowingly or unknowingly, mix themselves with people that carry Hamas flags and chant “from the river to the sea”, then they’re either useful idiots, or they’re pro-Hamas while using the pro-Palestine cause as a cop out.

Israel flat out said they do NOT want a two state solution.

Also explain to us; what is a Hamas flag? I have never heard about it nor seen one. I have only seen the Palestine flag. So tell us, show us and give us actual evidence with reliable sources.

You lie, spread misinformation and give ZERO reliable sources/ evidence.

1. Netanyahu again rejects Palestinian sovereignty amid fresh US push for two-state solution.
2. Nimer Sultany, a lecturer in law at the School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) in London, said the adjective expresses “the need for equality for all inhabitants of historic Palestine”..

EDIT: made some corrections to the spelling of words.

EDIT 2: it seems you cannot since you’re apparently ignoring me but responding to other people with lies and zero evidence to back it up once again.

I don’t support the indiscriminate bombing of the Gaza territory by the IDF. The IDF should practice restraint and act in a way to minimize civil casualties.

Your comments contradict one another. You say this here but your other comments give a whole different mindset.

But, consider that the Hamas militants deliberately use civilian buildings (hospitals, schools, mosques, etc.) as their military bases, and try their best to blend in with the civilians, when international law dictates all combatants in a war should be wearing uniforms so as to avoid mixing civilians in the skirmishes.

This doesn’t matter much. Because Israel have bombed refugee camps where Hamas didn’t even went to. Israel is bombing anyone who’s a Palestinian, heck even journalists. The argument of “Hamas is using humans as shields” is an old excuse.

Would Israel bomb their own hospitals, schools, refugee camps and all that if Hamas was within Israel? (bet not).

Under those circumstances, and knowing that until the Hamas is anhilated there won’t be true peace for Israeli civilians (risk of new missile attacks), it’s only natural that Israel will keep pressuring for the destruction on Hamas.

You see the old argument of “Hamas being destroyed” does not work at all. Israel killing innocent civilians creates more hatred against Israel as a whole. It means that anyone who’s a Palestinian and lost their entire land, home, friends, acquaintances and family will high likely join Hamas to get vengeance. Now, guess whose fault is for children joining Hamas after losing everything they ever cared for? Israel.

Will there be collateral damage? Sure, like all wars there will be. Especially when Hamas is doing its best to maximize civilian casualties so the useful idiots in the west take pity on them.

36 000 innocent civilians is not collateral damage. Its purposefully murdering innocent Palestinian people, its genocide and all the evidence backs it up.

It is not Hamas who’s bombing refugee camps, hospitals, schools, homes and any place that a Palestinian is. It is Israel. You’re good on pointing fingers but there’s zero factual evidence.

Should Israel be scrutinized for their effectiveness in minimizing civilian casualties? Sure. But I don’t think that we, living comfortably in countries in which there’s no neighbouring nation trying to send missiles at us, should be in a position to demand they cease the war just because we want them to, or pressure them to accept any ceasefire deal that’s not good for them. It’s primarily up to Israel to decide what’s best for the security of their citizens. And also for the security of their soldiers, which have families awaiting for their safe return home when this war’s over.

You do realize from the moment Israel become a state, Israel has never lived in actual peace? They stole the land, displaced 750 000, murdered thousands of people. Set fires to homes, good and everything else. Placed mines so Palestinians cannot return.

This “war” didn’t start on 7 October 2023 neither somewhere in 2020. It started the moment Israel decided to murder and steal everything the Palestinian people owned.

The ceasefire deal is a joke to begin with. 6 weeks ceasefire and then they’ll continue bombing the entirety of Gaza again. Its needs to be permanent. Israel has to be held accountable for their actions (genocide).

Israel want 100% safety? Well, should not have stolen the land, displaced thousands of Palestinian people, murdering, Apartheid system, discrimination. And for everything I say here; I can link sources if you want. It’ll be tomorrow though, not on PC. But I will if you ask me to.

In this scenario, I’d not blame the IDF if they’re a little more trigger-happy than we would feel it’s reasonable. It’s easy for us to judge when we’re safe and sound in our countries. But the soldiers are human too and they’ll do what’s best to preserve their lives. If a neighbouring country launched missiles against my country, I’m sorry for sounding cold, but I’d rather they die them my people die. Of course, I’d prefer if the military acted in a way to minimize casualties so as to preserve the innocent, but if being too careful in this quest endangers the soldiers of my country, I’d prefer my soldiers enhance their survival rate a little more than grant this benefit to the nation that attacked me first.

It has nothing to do with “easy to judge”.

There’s lots and lots of evidence. Documents, videos, articles and even actual ex-IDF soldiers speaking out.

IDF soldiers are always “happy to trigger their gun” since day one. Not just now.

Certainly soldiers are humans to but these soldiers are killing innocent civilians. They’re smiling, joking, stealing everything from the Palestinians. They’re recording themselves. The videos are all over Instagram.

They let children and other people signature their bombs with cruel words like “kill them all” which I can give a source for as well.

There’s in no way defending their atrocities. No matter how bad you want to.

Like I said, you’re an Israel-supporter and by your other comments in others thread, a possible Zionist.

I already told you; Israel is the core reason as to why Hamas even exist.

You seem to be an Israel-supporter that is okay with the genocide.

Wanting to stop the genocide and want Israel to stop killing innocent civilians (men, women and children) is not supporting Hamas in anyway.

It is however, standing for human rights. Rights to live, rights to have a normal human condition (a home, a land, a place to be, having education and everything that’s available for humanity).

If you really want to go that way;

Israel became an actual state in 1948 by displacing 750 000 Palestinian people and murdering many (men, women and children). Laying sieges, bombarding villages and population centers, setting fires to homes, properties and goods. Planting mines among the rubble to prevent any of the expelled people from returning (source: The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by ilan Pappé).

Hamas did not exist until 1987, they became an actual group only in 1987 because of all the horrifying things Israel had done from 1948 up until 1987. Which is approximately 40 years after what Israel had done to the Palestinian people.

So the only one to blame for Hamas existing is Israel themselves.

EDIT: Checking upon your comment history, yeah. You’re definitely a Israel-supporter and probably a Zionist. I recommend anyone to check his comment history.

Here’s the comment, I meant; Him saying that Palestinians devalue their own lives.

I don’t think they’re sorry for cheating on it but rather they’re sorry for getting caught.

You sound very upset, aggressive and making it immensely personal. I did not expect anything else from Israel supporters.

There’s a very reason they started to attack Israel the day Israel became an actual state but you purposefully left that out of the way.

So I will quote my old, old comment to you and leave it at that. Because there’s no civil discussion with Israel supporters.

Not only that, you suddenly started to bring the past into the discussion when you were first writing about 7th of October 2023 and beyond that. So you Purposefully trying to create confusion. After my quotation, I won’t comment to you anymore.

Israel became an actual state in 1948 by displacing 750 000 Palestinian people and murdering many (men, women and children). Laying sieges, bombarding villages and population centers, setting fires to homes, properties and goods. Planting mines among the rubble to prevent any of the expelled people from returning (source: The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by ilan Pappé).

Hamas did not exist until 1987, they became an actual group only in 1987 because of all the horrifying things Israel had done from 1948 up until 1987. Which is approximately 40 years after what Israel had done to the Palestinian people.

It seems someone has not educated themselves on history of what Israel has been doing (1948-2022).

Just because you do not read about it in the main news, it doesn’t mean that nothing has happened. That’s all I have to say.

Not the one you commented to but I found it interesting that you could still see it. So I tried another Lemmy app and now, I’m able to see it too as well.

One app shows “removed” and the other still shows the comment. Quite odd.

Murder? I saw the persons comment and it was clearly sarcasm. But I did not expect anything else from you. You delete everything that’s not to your liking, I remember you deleting my own comment for absolutely zero good reason.

It’s pretty much sarcasm. Everyone knows that Israel PM does not give a single shit about what happened.