MAGA is popular for the same reason other nationalist, fascist movements have risen over the course of modern history: as a response to Capitalist decay. MAGA isn’t popular for genetic reasons, intellectual inferiority, or other reasons like that, but as a common class interest. All of the descriptors in the OP are consequences of the driving factor of class interests, not the drivers themselves.
Fascism is most often represented as an alliance between the Petite Bourgeoisie and Bourgeoisie proper, driven by the Petite Bourgeoisie, as monopolization of Capital results in competition becoming more and more difficult, and the Petite Bourgeoisie faces Proletarianization. To prevent the Petite Bourgeoisie from joining the Proletariat in solidarity, the Bourgeoisie proper turns their hatred against the Proletariat and Lumpenproletariat.
What does this all mean, in practical, American terms? Small business owners, landlords, ie the “middle class,” is shrinking in power, so the Small Business Owners are aligning with billionaires like Musk and Bezos against immigrants, workers, unhoused peopled, gender/sexual minorities, women, ethnic minorities, and more.
How do we fix this? Grow the Petite Bourgeoisie and restore their position? Absolutely not! That’s when fascism is established. Trying to “turn the clock back to the good old days” results in dramatic reductions in worker rights and a solidification of power.
What we need to do is establish Socialism. A victory of the Proletariat, a folding of the large monopolist syndicates into the public sector so they can be centrally planned for the public good, rather than privately planned for profit, is the way forward. This is the way to escape fascism’s rise. This is the way to defeat MAGA.
I recommend reading the book Blackshirts and Reds, fascism’s irrationality has rational, material origins, that can be understood and defeated, and it isn’t in the “marketplace of ideas.”
Conservativism isn’t the same as fascism. Reactionary movements have existed in every form of Class Society, when Capitalism overtook Feudalism it was the holdover Monarchist movements. It isn’t a “convenient rallying cry,” but an analysis of reactionary vs progressive social movements driven by class interests.
mega fits into capitalism and socialist
I have no idea what this means. Why do you think MAGA is Socialist?
I remember that book, it’s older right? I read it in college or high school at some point.
“Reactionary movements have existed in every form of Class Society, when Capitalism overtook Feudalism it was the holdover Monarchist movements.”
and before class society!
"an analysis of reactionary vs progressive social movements driven by class interests. "
blaming capitalism for literally everything, especially in a meme, is simple aggressive fomenting.
superficial demonization encourages a riot, not a movement, although it’s easy to confuse the two when your blood is pumping and everyone around you is screaming the same facile slogan.
What “reactionary” movements existed in tribal societies devoid of distinct classes?
blaming capitalism for literally everything, especially in a meme, is simple aggressive fomenting.
I blame Capitalism for Capitalism’s issues, not literally everything.
superficial demonization encourages a riot, not a movement, although it’s easy to confuse the two when your blood is pumping and everyone around you is screaming the same facile slogan.
“What “reactionary” movements existed in tribal societies devoid of distinct classes?”
tribal societies specifically?
exactly how far are you narrowing societies you want examples of reactionary movements in down to?
like you want a specific century and a specific type of society? instead of just any non-capitalist society?
how are you defining capitalism?
are you ignoring the contemporary Amish and other people who oppose change out of principle for no capitalist reason?
"I blame Capitalism for Capitalism’s issues, not literally everything. "
you’re lumping conservative human behavior that exists independent of capitalism with actual examples of direct capitalist problems like mortgage crises.
your brush is too broad.
"I have no idea what point you’re actually making. "
yelling “socialism is the best and capitalism causes all the problems” at the people yelling “capitalism is the best and socialism causes all the problems” isn’t exactly dignifying your stance with a sense of legitimacy.
Yes, after tribal societies came the first class-based societies. You said reactionary movements predate class society, tell me.
how are you defining capitalism?
An economic mode of production centered around commodity production through competing Capitalists in markets who employ wage-labor, seeking greater and greater accumulation. This process is only a few hundred years old.
are you ignoring the contemporary Amish and other people who oppose change out of principle for no capitalist reason?
The Amish participate in Capitalism. Culture is a reflection of the Mode of Production.
you’re lumping conservative human behavior that exists independent of capitalism with actual examples of direct capitalist problems like mortgage crises.
I am speaking of class interests.
yelling “socialism is the best and capitalism causes all the problems” at the people yelling “capitalism is the best and socialism causes all the problems” isn’t exactly dignifying your stance with a sense of legitimacy.
“Yes, after tribal societies came the first class-based societies.”
if you ignore the coexistence of tribal societies and class societies, i guess.
okay.
tribal societies with conservatives(you call them reactionaries):
I can’t think of any tribal society without conservatives in them.
maybe I’ll just find specific examples for you?
there’s that famous uncontacted Island tribe, sentinalese, who kills anyone who attempts to contact them, that’s pretty reactionary.
I guess we can look at Australian aborigines, they are at least 30,000 years old.
If you didn’t follow the traditions and tried to change their cultural habits, you were banished or put to death for your disrespect of tradition in aboriginal culture.
and native American culture.
and…
That’s the same with almost every tribal society I can remember.
maybe not the Jain?
are you using some weird gotcha definition for reactionary and that’s why you’re pretending not to know about conservative backlash against change in tribal societies?
“The Amish participate in Capitalism. Culture is a reflection of the Mode of Production.”
completely irrelevant. we’re talking about why they are reactionary.
they are not reactionary because of capitalism.
The Amish are reactionary for cultural and religious reasons entirely unrelated to capitalism.
there are several societies like that existing right now that resist change and have reactionary movements that have nothing to do with capitalism.
conservatism is a very human trait, irrespective of your economic infrastructure.
tribal societies with conservatives(you call them reactionaries):
BEEP! Wrong. Conservativism is not the same as beimg reactionary, though similar.
there’s that famous uncontacted Island tribe, sentinalese, who kills anyone who attempts to contact them, that’s pretty reactionary.
That’s not what reactionary means. Reactionary refers to trying to turn the clock back to an earlier point in economic development.
are you using some weird gotcha definition for reactionary and that’s why you’re pretending not to know about conservative backlash against change in tribal societies?
I am using the correct definition.
completely irrelevant. we’re talking about why they are reactionary.
You just explained precisely why it’s relevant.
there are several societies like that existing right now that resist change and have reactionary movements that have nothing to do with capitalism.
Never said reactionary movements are only due to Capitalism.
MAGA is popular for the same reason other nationalist, fascist movements have risen over the course of modern history: as a response to Capitalist decay. MAGA isn’t popular for genetic reasons, intellectual inferiority, or other reasons like that, but as a common class interest. All of the descriptors in the OP are consequences of the driving factor of class interests, not the drivers themselves.
Fascism is most often represented as an alliance between the Petite Bourgeoisie and Bourgeoisie proper, driven by the Petite Bourgeoisie, as monopolization of Capital results in competition becoming more and more difficult, and the Petite Bourgeoisie faces Proletarianization. To prevent the Petite Bourgeoisie from joining the Proletariat in solidarity, the Bourgeoisie proper turns their hatred against the Proletariat and Lumpenproletariat.
What does this all mean, in practical, American terms? Small business owners, landlords, ie the “middle class,” is shrinking in power, so the Small Business Owners are aligning with billionaires like Musk and Bezos against immigrants, workers, unhoused peopled, gender/sexual minorities, women, ethnic minorities, and more.
How do we fix this? Grow the Petite Bourgeoisie and restore their position? Absolutely not! That’s when fascism is established. Trying to “turn the clock back to the good old days” results in dramatic reductions in worker rights and a solidification of power.
What we need to do is establish Socialism. A victory of the Proletariat, a folding of the large monopolist syndicates into the public sector so they can be centrally planned for the public good, rather than privately planned for profit, is the way forward. This is the way to escape fascism’s rise. This is the way to defeat MAGA.
I recommend reading the book Blackshirts and Reds, fascism’s irrationality has rational, material origins, that can be understood and defeated, and it isn’t in the “marketplace of ideas.”
That’s a modern take that doesn’t really hold up to any scrutiny since there was conservatism before capitalism.
It’s a convenient rallying cry of people who prefer socialism as they understand it, but the direct comparison doesn’t hold any historical water.
mega fits into capitalism and socialist. I think they’re such broad concepts, but definitely not the instigating concepts of fascism are conservatism.
I remember that book, it’s older right? I read it in college or high school at some point.
Conservativism isn’t the same as fascism. Reactionary movements have existed in every form of Class Society, when Capitalism overtook Feudalism it was the holdover Monarchist movements. It isn’t a “convenient rallying cry,” but an analysis of reactionary vs progressive social movements driven by class interests.
I have no idea what this means. Why do you think MAGA is Socialist?
Written in the 90s, you should revisit it.
“Reactionary movements have existed in every form of Class Society, when Capitalism overtook Feudalism it was the holdover Monarchist movements.”
and before class society!
"an analysis of reactionary vs progressive social movements driven by class interests. "
blaming capitalism for literally everything, especially in a meme, is simple aggressive fomenting.
superficial demonization encourages a riot, not a movement, although it’s easy to confuse the two when your blood is pumping and everyone around you is screaming the same facile slogan.
What “reactionary” movements existed in tribal societies devoid of distinct classes?
I blame Capitalism for Capitalism’s issues, not literally everything.
I have no idea what point you’re actually making.
“What “reactionary” movements existed in tribal societies devoid of distinct classes?”
tribal societies specifically?
exactly how far are you narrowing societies you want examples of reactionary movements in down to?
like you want a specific century and a specific type of society? instead of just any non-capitalist society?
how are you defining capitalism?
are you ignoring the contemporary Amish and other people who oppose change out of principle for no capitalist reason?
"I blame Capitalism for Capitalism’s issues, not literally everything. "
you’re lumping conservative human behavior that exists independent of capitalism with actual examples of direct capitalist problems like mortgage crises.
your brush is too broad.
"I have no idea what point you’re actually making. "
yelling “socialism is the best and capitalism causes all the problems” at the people yelling “capitalism is the best and socialism causes all the problems” isn’t exactly dignifying your stance with a sense of legitimacy.
Yes, after tribal societies came the first class-based societies. You said reactionary movements predate class society, tell me.
An economic mode of production centered around commodity production through competing Capitalists in markets who employ wage-labor, seeking greater and greater accumulation. This process is only a few hundred years old.
The Amish participate in Capitalism. Culture is a reflection of the Mode of Production.
I am speaking of class interests.
Where are you seeing this?
“Yes, after tribal societies came the first class-based societies.”
if you ignore the coexistence of tribal societies and class societies, i guess.
okay.
tribal societies with conservatives(you call them reactionaries):
I can’t think of any tribal society without conservatives in them.
maybe I’ll just find specific examples for you?
there’s that famous uncontacted Island tribe, sentinalese, who kills anyone who attempts to contact them, that’s pretty reactionary.
I guess we can look at Australian aborigines, they are at least 30,000 years old.
If you didn’t follow the traditions and tried to change their cultural habits, you were banished or put to death for your disrespect of tradition in aboriginal culture.
and native American culture.
and…
That’s the same with almost every tribal society I can remember.
maybe not the Jain?
are you using some weird gotcha definition for reactionary and that’s why you’re pretending not to know about conservative backlash against change in tribal societies?
“The Amish participate in Capitalism. Culture is a reflection of the Mode of Production.”
completely irrelevant. we’re talking about why they are reactionary.
they are not reactionary because of capitalism.
The Amish are reactionary for cultural and religious reasons entirely unrelated to capitalism.
there are several societies like that existing right now that resist change and have reactionary movements that have nothing to do with capitalism.
conservatism is a very human trait, irrespective of your economic infrastructure.
“Where are you seeing this?”
in your comments and the memes you are defending.
BEEP! Wrong. Conservativism is not the same as beimg reactionary, though similar.
That’s not what reactionary means. Reactionary refers to trying to turn the clock back to an earlier point in economic development.
I am using the correct definition.
You just explained precisely why it’s relevant.
Never said reactionary movements are only due to Capitalism.
Quote me.