Hey, everyone deserves two or three back and forths before I write them off as not really wanting to have a debate on a thing

A cable subscription isn’t a depreciating asset, though.

Currently the earth is overpopulated and many parts of the world are only just starting to slow their population growth. The problem of crowding is going to be here for awhile. Eventually it would be great if we could reduce our population to the point where there’s plenty of space for all, if that sounds utopian to you, but for the time being we’re going to have to live in denser areas if we want to deliver amenities and services to all (and we do).

Dense and (I guess I should have said or) urban areas. If these people are moving to the outskirts of metro areas, they’re creating a dense, if not urban, community.

https://www.un.org/development/desa/en/news/population/2018-revision-of-world-urbanization-prospects.html

Tbf, people moving from rural areas to more dense and urban areas is kind of inevitable as time goes on. Megacities when?

I’m not even going to wait for you to come up with a new angle to come at me with.

I award you the Useful Idiot Ribbon.

Sorry, I wasn’t aware that animal abuse is on the same level of inanity as throwing soup at a painting. You’re being insanely disingenuous.

My argument is not “if a protest is uncomfortable, then it is effective”.

It is “how can you in the same comment say ‘this is a stupid way to go about risking jail for a noble cause’ and ‘there never has nor will there ever be such a thing as “the right way to protest”’?”.

I think the fact that you’ve spent a lot of time in liberal organizations is why you think that way about where it falls on the continuum between progressivism and conservatism.

Interesting that you characterize my statement as "both sides"ing. I would say the thrust of my statement is not “both sides” but “one side”. America does not have a progressive party, only conservative and conservative-lite. Given the choice, of course I’ll choose the latter, not least because the former is so far off the deep end it may never recover as a party. That does not mean I think that both parties are the same.

Visually:

--------Progressivism ------------------------ Center ------ Liberalism --------------------------- Conservatism.

Liberals and conservatives are more similar than liberals and progressives.

This exactly. Protests happen more often than people think. It’s just easy to bury it.

Morally, perhaps not. But legally yes, justified crimes are still crimes.

Mmmm, yes, we are

I hear that, really I do. But here’s the thing - if you don’t have faith in humanity then we’re all screwed anyway. And nihilism is not the answer. Never is.

And why is that? At least partially because a) like it or not, oil barons have a lot of influence and b) people are whinging about it, which makes judges think that they’re doing the will of the people.

Perhaps you are. I would assume you’re already probably at least somewhat on board with environmental causes.

How do you think a person who lives in the middle of nowhere, doesn’t have much of an education or anything, would react if they saw someone doing this? Probably that they must care a lot to get arrested for doing something intentionally. What makes it worth it? What are they about? Oh, something called Just Stop Oil… oh, an environmental group. Something called climate change? If it’s actually happening, I guess we should be doing something about that.

Uh… do you know what their punishment is for this? They usually get carted to the local jail, held for between a few hours and a few days, then released once the media have gone away. The offense is so minor that the punishment is the equivalent of getting lost in a corn maze. Usually, the JSO people are older people who don’t have much going on and so it’s literally no skin off their back if they have to sit in the local jail for a few days. (Also, UK jails are much more humane than US jails, so they don’t really suffer)

See, I don’t think you do. I’m not trying to No True Scotsman you, but if you agree that protests inherently have to upset people a little bit, you can’t then turn around and say “but don’t upset us like this!”. You don’t get to pick and choose what protests are morally correct or even worth it - that’s the protestor’s job, not yours!

I mean if that’s your opinion, I’m right there with you. It’s a drastic solution, but it might work! Problem is, who are you going to get who’s okay with a serious crime and a prison sentence on their record? It doesn’t matter what action they actually do as long as people talk about it. If the news got all up in arms about them putting up posters on their local community board, then I’d suggest that they do that.

I’m going to keep saying “what doesn’t make sense about this to you?” because I feel you’re being wilfully obtuse.

Yesterday you were not talking about climate change. Today you are. Because someone threw soup at a painting and sat down, waiting to be arrested. Had they not done so, you likely would not be talking about climate change.